I saw this Adobe software update notifier, and I was to excited. Why? Adobe does the right thing!



Informing users that there are updates available, and ask users if he or she wants to start download.

Well done Adobe!

Unlike the shameful Firefox, must resort to such dirty tactic by setting the default Preferences to download updates stealthily, and only inform users that updates have been downloaded and will be installed upon next relaunching of application.



Please note, I do not say security update is not important, however, I don't see that need that I shall rush for the latest of whatsoever release, and certainly can't understand the need to force me (and a number of users who do not check default Preferences settings) to rush for the latest.

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Netscape 9 | SillyDog701: Switch guide | Browser Archive | MozInfo701
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Don't steal music.

不知道有沒有人到Mozilla Forum反應過,如果沒有的話小弟想轉貼英文過去.

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再看一次發現我有點忽略 ants 原來的重點，所以這裡我找一個比喻來說 ants 認為的問題在哪裡。

請設想這樣的情況。我買了 M 家俱公司的 F 沙發 1 號放在我家客廳。然後 M 家俱公司因為 F 沙發 1 號不安全，所以沒經過我的同意就擅自進入我家把我的 F 沙發 1 號換成 F 沙發 2 號。不管他們有多充份的理由，擅自進入我家、動了我的東西就是不尊重我而且非常不道德的；當然，這在很多地方都是違法的行為。

回到 Firefox 更新的問題，難道因為半強制性的更新對多數使用者有好處，他們就可以不經過我的同意，擅自修改我電腦裡的（程式）資料？我想這是 ants 用 shameful 這樣字強烈批評的重點。問題不是半強制更新有多少好處或壞處，而是這個行為本身就不尊重使用者。

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Although not formally reported to Mozilla, Asa Dotzler, an employee of Mozilla Corp., has read my complaint and he commented (please see my previous post).

Also, (from my observation) a huge number of Firefox developers/users are those who always rush for the latest version or patch. Forcing users update suits them. If you re-read all my posts in this thread, you should notice that I never said security updates are bad, but I focused on two things: why must users rush for the latest and the tactic of forcing users to update.

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Netscape 9 | SillyDog701: Switch guide | Browser Archive | MozInfo701
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Don't steal music.

Thanks xacid. You got it right.

The main problem is that... developers think updating to the latest is important, they also believe users must do so. But, they've crossed the lines. Users who do not check every single settings of Preferences or those don't feel comfortable on changing Preferences settings are forced to get the latest. The main problem... they shouldn't have such default setting.

And I just noticed another problem: After making a clean installation of Firefox and the first launch, there's no mention that Firefox will update itself unless users changes settings in Preferences. They don't even disclose such updating policy during installation or at first launch. They really decided to force people to update in a dirty and stealth (secret) way.

Hence, I call such forced updating policy a dirty tactic, and it is a shameful and unethical behaviour.

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Netscape 9 | SillyDog701: Switch guide | Browser Archive | MozInfo701
MacCentre701 | AntBlog701
Don't steal music.

或許是說話語氣與英文、中文表達上的差異吧。我覺得 xacid 兄講的話，邏輯清楚，看了就直點頭，但對於 ants 的表達，就是看了很想反駁。

我個人也是偏好先詢問再更新的，但我覺得，這只是一個選項，有必要用 shameful、unethical 這種字來批評人家？個人認為：程式設計師應該是認為「自動下載與安裝更新檔案」比「詢問我要怎麼做」更方便、而且更新後的版本更好，才把這當成預設，我覺得這個選項的出發點是出於善意與自信的。被人講成「強迫使用者更新」這麼邪惡，如果我是程設人員，一定會很不爽吧，即使你講的有道理，我也不想理你。也許你會說，事實上這就是會「強迫使用者更新」啊！沒錯，但我覺得如果要讓人家比較能接受你的話，用理性一點的文字是不是比較不會引起反彈？譬如，你可以說，「自動更新雖然可以讓使用者的瀏覽器維持在最安全的狀態，但對於想稍後再更新的人，不夠尊重。雖然選項中可以設定，但對於不知道這個設定的人而言，當他們已經被自動更新，才想到去選項中修改設定，已經太慢了。所以自動更新的預設值應該改成『詢問我要怎麼做』」。也許還可以附上 ants 昨天貼了 Adobe 的升級畫面，把這個畫面跟 Fx 的更新畫面來比，我相信大部分人會覺得 Fx 設計得不夠完善，這應該是可以更好的。

題外話，其實這麼理性的建議，有時會被「忽略」，也許，用些尖酸的字眼來刺激人家，比較能夠引起人家注意，只不過，個人很看不起這種操作，因為這就跟報章雜誌的標題殺人法一樣機車。

Edit: 這篇 post 得晚了，剛剛看到 ants 兄已經回 xacid 了，其實這篇應該接在 xacid 後面看的。講的話跟 ants 兄後來回文有些重疊了。

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有人覺得Shame和Sheng唸起來很像嗎

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被恐嚇嘍…真恐怖…暫時不放簽名檔了

喔喔，難怪我們要被"persuaded to update(我可不覺得它是upgrade)"了，

看來之前已經有人惹惱Moz的不理性程設人員？

by the way, 如果今天這樣搞的是微軟？

以下是「還會幫自動更新說話」報名名單
-------------------------------------

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被恐嚇嘍…真恐怖…暫時不放簽名檔了

coolcd

不過我想微軟的自動更新我們就不要在這裡討論了，不然又要偏離主題。

PS. 拜託你 quote 的時候注意一下人名，你前一篇 quote 的不是我講的。還有啊，你每次回的都不是我要講的重點，不回了～

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當然，那麼這整個主題也不應該繼續！
因為ants如果不爽可以不要用Firefox！
你可以使用這世界讓任何一個真正更符合自由兩個字本質的其他瀏覽器！

畢竟，
我們現在可不是站在使用者立場思考應該怎麼作才是最好的，
或討論一個自由軟體應該怎樣去實踐、或者延伸他的自由精神。

至於提到微軟，我道歉；如果我想要找個在這個問題不會偏袒Firefox的人，我應該去微軟技術社群，我明知道在這裡不會得到答案，還做出這樣的質疑，很明顯就是希望挑起戰火，因為我知道有些人見不到Firefox被批評，或者MS被袒護。


喔…因為我習慣把Pagestyle設成None所以其實看不太清楚到底我Quote到誰的文章，所以偶爾會搞錯，已經修正，謝謝

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被恐嚇嘍…真恐怖…暫時不放簽名檔了

Any way, I must remind you:


Mozilla Trademark Policy

"...you can't use our trademarks as vehicles(≠car) for defaming us or sullying our reputation. These basic requirements can serve as a guide as you work your way through the policy."

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被恐嚇嘍…真恐怖…暫時不放簽名檔了

You can't deny the power of words. The choice of words is depending on the posters, everybody has his or her style.

In case you were not aware, I never intended to report to Mozilla. (As I mentioned earlier,) I am working on my best to make public aware such issue. The words might have been strong. And I apologise if you are offended by the usage of those words.

Thank you for your comment.

I am aware that there are some die-hard supporters can't take any criticisms or negative reports on the products/things/idols they support. When I started this thread, I was prepared for all the different opinions.


No.

The sounds [tt]m[/tt] and [tt]ng[/tt] are different.

Thanks for reminding.

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Netscape 9 | SillyDog701: Switch guide | Browser Archive | MozInfo701
MacCentre701 | AntBlog701
Don't steal music.

In one Windows 2000 installation of Firefox, I forgot to change the default setting, I was forced to update.

This time, I clicked "Later", and I received following dialogue:


Then, in my next re-launch of Firefox, I received following updating window directly.


Unlike bookmusic mentioned, I was unable to stay in previous version of Firefox I was happy with.

(Environment: Windows 2000 under Parallels Desktop for Mac under Mac OS X.)

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Netscape 9 | SillyDog701: Switch guide | Browser Archive | MozInfo701
MacCentre701 | AntBlog701
Don't steal music.

一點小建議，你邊講別人邊這麼作，似乎不太好

你這「報章雜誌的標題殺人法」不就是個leading word？

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被恐嚇嘍…真恐怖…暫時不放簽名檔了

如果不要更新，就在工具那邊改為不更新，這樣不就解決問題！