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文章發表於 : 2005-09-04, 18:22 
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註冊時間: 2005-05-09, 11:10
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小弟剛完成了 Camino 0.9a2 正體中文的初稿,現請各位提供意見。

原本小弟是在 Camino build 2005090308 (1.0+) 上翻譯的。可是, 完成品竟然在不能執行。
這是 Camino build 2005090308 (1.0+) 和 Camino 0.9a1 的分別 workglossary 檔案:
http://drgeek.gotdns.com/camino/Camino.app.0.9a2.zh_TW.wg


小弟唯有再用 build 2005090308 (1.0+) 為基礎,再為 Camino 0.9a2 翻譯。
這是 Camino 0.9a2 的正體中文初版:
http://drgeek.gotdns.com/camino/Camino.app.0.9a2.zh_TW.zip


但 Camino build 2005090308 (1.0+) 和 v.0.9a2 只差版本上的兩句,所以不在此附上了。

如果想要完全翻譯的 Application Dictionaries,請下載以下檔案:
http://drgeek.gotdns.com/camino/Camino.app.0.9a2.zh_TW.ad


Cheers,

Janus

P.s.
請到 http://caminol10n.mozdev.org/appleglot-how-to/index.html 參考 AppleGlot 的使用辦法。以上 wg 檔是在那編教學中,“Actions -> Initial Pass” 之後,在 “_WorkGlossary” 檔案夾中抽取出來的。 而 ad 檔是在 “_ApplicationDictionaries” 檔案夾中抽取出來


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文章發表於 : 2005-09-09, 12:24 
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註冊時間: 2005-05-09, 11:10
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經過五日,都無朋友回應,現在小弟就向 Caminol10n 交回 Camino 0.9a2 正體中文的初版為最終 0.9a2 zh_TW 版本。 :)


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文章發表於 : 2005-09-10, 03:57 
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註冊時間: 2003-09-09, 00:07
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hi~
不好意思
可以麻煩你在這裡po一下嗎?
這邊用Mac的人比較多
應該會有更多的人發現問題所在。

也順便麻煩你看一下我po的:http://forum.moztw.org/viewtopic.php?t=10331
檢查一下你中文化之後會不會有一樣問題,或是camino本身的bug?

麻煩您了 :D

您的付出是中文使用者的光榮~


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文章發表於 : 2005-09-10, 08:31 
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註冊時間: 2003-07-22, 11:00
文章: 1796
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Phreak 寫:
經過五日,都無朋友回應,現在小弟就向 Caminol10n 交回 Camino 0.9a2 正體中文的初版為最終 0.9a2 zh_TW 版本。 :)
it looks fine to me. Have you contacted annjack?
(He probably won't return to MozTW, due to previous issue with one member here.)

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文章發表於 : 2005-09-10, 21:43 
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註冊時間: 2005-05-09, 11:10
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ants 寫:
Phreak 寫:
經過五日,都無朋友回應,現在小弟就向 Caminol10n 交回 Camino 0.9a2 正體中文的初版為最終 0.9a2 zh_TW 版本。 :)
it looks fine to me. Have you contacted annjack?
(He probably won't return to MozTW, due to previous issue with one member here.)

Yes, I have emailed both annjack and Josesun. Unfortunately, I haven't got any reply from them yet. :(


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文章發表於 : 2005-09-10, 22:02 
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註冊時間: 2005-05-09, 11:10
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erube 寫:
hi~
不好意思
可以麻煩你在這裡po一下嗎?
這邊用Mac的人比較多
應該會有更多的人發現問題所在。

也順便麻煩你看一下我po的:http://forum.moztw.org/viewtopic.php?t=10331
檢查一下你中文化之後會不會有一樣問題,或是camino本身的bug?

麻煩您了 :D

您的付出是中文使用者的光榮~


已經貼了:
http://www.oikos.com.tw/v4/viewtopic.php?pid=69750#p69750

不過不要抱太大期望,小弟之前在 0.7 和 0.8 時,也到那兒、冰果室老地方蘋狂陣渤麦堂貼過,但也沒有得到回應。 :(

有關輸入法的問題,小弟最近轉了使用 Firefox 的 nightly 版本,DeerPark,現沒有留意了。

但你可以到 bugzilla 回報 bug report。除了你自己寫 bug fix 外,這樣對問題得到修補最有效用。 :wink:


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文章發表於 : 2005-09-11, 00:43 
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註冊時間: 2003-07-22, 11:00
文章: 1796
來自: Sydney
Phreak 寫:
I can't download this file. In fact I can't download all 3 files hosted in drgeek.dotdns.com

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文章發表於 : 2005-09-11, 04:47 
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註冊時間: 2005-05-09, 11:10
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ants 寫:
Phreak 寫:
I can't download this file. In fact I can't download all 3 files hosted in drgeek.dotdns.com


Does it help if you replace the domain with the actual IP, "210.245.168.19"? I.e. the above link will becomes:
http://210.245.168.19/camino/Camino.app.0.9a2.zh_TW.wg


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文章發表於 : 2005-09-11, 11:41 
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註冊時間: 2003-07-22, 11:00
文章: 1796
來自: Sydney
thanks. the drgeek.dotdns.com works today.

I am not sure how people call [tt]Plugin[/tt] (or [tt]Plug-in[/tt]) in Chinese, but I would leave [tt]Plugin[/tt] as in English.

For page footers and headers, I would use
[tt]<base loc="en" >Page Footers</base>
<tran loc="zh_TW" origin="">頁尾</tran>[/tt]
[tt]<base loc="en" >Page Headers</base>
<tran loc="zh_TW" origin="">頁首</tran>[/tt]

And I make this simpler,
[tt] <base loc="en" >%@ is already running on this system. Only one copy can be run at a time.</base>
<tran loc="zh_TW" origin="">%@ 正在執行中,一次只能夠執行一個版本。</tran>[/tt]

Note for [tt]History[/tt]
when it's under HistoryWindowsTitle, it should be
[tt]<Position>HistoryWindowTitle</Position>
<TranslationSet>

<base loc="en" >History</base>
<tran loc="zh_TW" origin="AD matched text"> 歷史記錄</tran>

</TranslationSet>
</TextItem>[/tt] (Keep it as a "noun" instead of a "verb")

But for ShowHistory section, keep it as 瀏覽記錄.

[tt] <base loc="en" >An error occured which prevents %@ from running (failed to initialize layout engine).</base>
<tran loc="zh_TW" origin="">錯誤導至不能執行 %@(無法啟動格式引擎)。</tran>[/tt]

Those are some that I found. Suggestions from other people should be better than mine.

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文章發表於 : 2005-09-13, 11:37 
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註冊時間: 2005-05-09, 11:10
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First of all, thanks for your recommendations!

ants 寫:
thanks. the drgeek.dotdns.com works today.

I am not sure how people call [tt]Plugin[/tt] (or [tt]Plug-in[/tt]) in Chinese, but I would leave [tt]Plugin[/tt] as in English.


I have followed the practice in Safari which translated "plugin" into "外掛模組". I think it is official wordings should override personal preferences unless there is serious reason to do it otherwise. Do you agree?


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檔案註釋: plugin
Picture 2.png [15.75 KiB]
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文章發表於 : 2005-09-13, 11:39 
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註冊時間: 2005-05-09, 11:10
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ants 寫:
For page footers and headers, I would use
[tt]<base loc="en" >Page Footers</base>
<tran loc="zh_TW" origin="">頁尾</tran>[/tt]
[tt]<base loc="en" >Page Headers</base>
<tran loc="zh_TW" origin="">頁首</tran>[/tt]


Those were what came up to my mind at first as well. I cannot find those words in the glossaries Apple supplied. I found "頁眉" and "頁腳" in some third parties' application; therefore, I followed them.

However, I search again while reading this message and found that the current version (2.0.1) of Safari has added the page header and footer options in printing dialog. They are translated as "標題" and "註腳". I will correct them to the Apple's wordings and submit it back in next version.


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檔案註釋: Page header and footer
Picture 1.png [29.28 KiB]
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文章發表於 : 2005-09-13, 11:52 
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註冊時間: 2005-05-09, 11:10
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ants 寫:
And I make this simpler,
[tt] <base loc="en" >%@ is already running on this system. Only one copy can be run at a time.</base>
<tran loc="zh_TW" origin="">%@ 正在執行中,一次只能夠執行一個版本。</tran>[/tt]


That is a simpler but I found it is not as clear as "%@ 正在本系統中執行,同一時間,只能夠執行一個版本。"

I would prefer to listen to more people's opinions before making a final decision.

Dear members, please tell us what you think about these wordings. Or do you have a better suggestion?

ants 寫:
Note for [tt]History[/tt]
when it's under HistoryWindowsTitle, it should be
[tt]<Position>HistoryWindowTitle</Position>
<TranslationSet>

<base loc="en" >History</base>
<tran loc="zh_TW" origin="AD matched text"> 歷史記錄</tran>

</TranslationSet>
</TextItem>[/tt] (Keep it as a "noun" instead of a "verb")

But for ShowHistory section, keep it as 瀏覽記錄.


"瀏覽" is a noun in Chinese as well as a verb, right? I found Safari used the wording, "清除瀏覽記錄" where "清除" should be a verb and "瀏覽記錄" is the object.


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檔案註釋: History
Picture 3.png [24.6 KiB]
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文章發表於 : 2005-09-13, 13:25 
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註冊時間: 2005-05-09, 11:10
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ants 寫:
[tt] <base loc="en" >An error occured which prevents %@ from running (failed to initialize layout engine).</base>
<tran loc="zh_TW" origin="">錯誤導至不能執行 %@(無法啟動格式引擎)。</tran>[/tt]

Those are some that I found. Suggestions from other people should be better than mine.


Let me state a general principal while I translate UI's.

I try my best to keep it as faithful as I can and keep it consistent for the same phrase while trying to use the most popular and the simplest words whenever we can.

Since there are often multiple candidates to translate a phrase and multiple phrases may be translated to the same phrase in Chinese. It is a many-to-many mapping.

Why I choose the faithfulness and consistence over popularity and simple would be best illustrated by the example of "find" and "search". Literally these 2 words are interchangeable and both can be translated into either "尋找" or "搜尋". However, we know that in computers, "find" often means "find in the opened window / document" and "search" often means "search it elsewhere". A consistent translation, that always translates "find" into "尋找" and "search" into "搜尋" and don't mix them up, will benefit the user to understand the fine differences between these 2 words beyond their literal meanings.

Therefore, my practice is keeping the translation as consistent as possible and do not substitute another popular/simple but unfaithful term for the unpopular/complex term.


About this specific case:

Normally we (Jack and I) translate the term "initialize" as "初始化" to differentiate it from "launch" and "activate".

For example, we may have another phrase, "failed to launch layout engine", in next version. It is unlikely that we would realize that we had translated "無法啟動格式引擎" in another error already. We would have 2 unrelated error dialogs showing the same phrase. The solution to these errors might not be the same. Hence the user would have a hard time to get help since the developers and other users were confused between these errors as well.

"Layout" is first encountered in Camino. "Layout" is translated into "佈局" in the Apple provided glossaries of "htmldisplay_Tier2_proj.lg". It is better to keep it consistent and not to confuse with another term, "format".

Normally, "can't", "cannot", "couldn't" and "could not" are translated into "無法". "Failed" and "is failed" are translated into "失敗". I agree that the meanings of those English and Chinese phrases are pretty much the same and they are interchangeable; however, I guess a consistent translation is still a better practice.





Do you agree with the above reasonings?



Sorry that I have turned down most of your suggestions. :oops:

However, please do not hesitate to tell me if you think otherwise. Furthermore, please help us out in next version as well. Your feedback is very valuable! :)


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文章發表於 : 2005-09-13, 14:20 
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註冊時間: 2003-09-23, 22:45
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小小聲說,
Camino/Shiira再某些網頁上還是開不了,
我知道是寫網頁的人技術不好,
可是還是使得我這個只撿現成的end user不常使用camino了


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文章發表於 : 2005-09-13, 15:43 
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註冊時間: 2003-07-22, 11:00
文章: 1796
來自: Sydney
Phreak 寫:
ants 寫:
For page footers and headers, I would use
[tt]<base loc="en" >Page Footers</base>
<tran loc="zh_TW" origin="">頁尾</tran>[/tt]
[tt]<base loc="en" >Page Headers</base>
<tran loc="zh_TW" origin="">頁首</tran>[/tt]


Those were what came up to my mind at first as well. I cannot find those words in the glossaries Apple supplied. I found "頁眉" and "頁腳" in some third parties' application; therefore, I followed them.
Somehow, I am not familiar with phrases like "頁眉" and "頁腳", so I recommend alternative.

As for "標題" and "註腳", I would suggest those to be "title" and "footnote" instead.

引言回覆:
Sorry that I have turned down most of your suggestions.
That's all right.
I don't use Chinese version of Firefox, Safari or even Camino. In general, I don't work with menus or dialogues in Chinese, so when someone gives me Windows or Mac that is in Chinese interface it usually slows me down a lot.

I only provide suggestions based on how the sentence sound, not from a user who use them.

Apart, personally I don't like direct translation... so I don't see the need to distinguish "無法" and "失敗". An overall flow of the sentence seems more important to me.

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